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hello Richard Saunders here from Sydney

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Australia welcome to the skeptic zone

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show number 14 for the 23rd of January

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2009 a special episode later on we'll

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have some highlights from my adventure

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up the coast of Alaska with James Randi

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Phil Plait rebecca watson and many

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others but before then we have a special

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interview conducted by Kylie Sturgis

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with Jon Ronson Jon Ronson has written a

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book called the men who stare at goats

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which is currently being turned into a

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feature film starring such big names as

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well let's find out Jon Ronson is a

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writer and a documentary maker whose

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regular appearances in British

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publications include the Guardian

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newspaper and time out magazine he has

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even investigated a UFO conference with

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singer Robbie Williams and a character

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based upon Watson will soon be played by

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Ewan McGregor in a film starring george

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clooney about not so psychic soldiers

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Jon Ronson's first book them adventures

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with extremists is an investigative

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account of his experiences with the

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likes of David Icke Randy Weaver Omar

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Bakri Mohammed and their conspiracy

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theory views he also follows independent

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investigators of secretive organizations

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such as the Bilderberg Group his second

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book the men who stare at goats deals

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with the secret new-age unit that was

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within the u.s. army called the first

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Earth battalion and why they believed

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people could walk through walls and even

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kill goats simply by staring at them the

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men who stare at goats is currently in

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production as a Hollywood movie his

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collections of essays include out of the

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ordinary true tales of everyday

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craziness and what I do more to tales of

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everyday craziness you can even read his

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account of attending a cruise with

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suppose that psychic Sylvia Browne on

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the Guardian newspaper website Jon

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Ronson also presents at the skeptics in

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the pub in the UK and he currently spoke

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to us from his home in

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the skeptics are John first of all thank

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you so much for joining us thanks to the

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wonders of technology we are now

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chatting to you all the way over there

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in London yeah yeah I'm being purchased

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by Richard and sickness just amazing

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yeah welcome to 2009 certainly one of

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the wonderful things about your work is

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that it's growing more and more in

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popularity the second book that you

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wrote the men who stared at goats is

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going to become a feature film soon

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knife I've read and I know yeah yeah you

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can't tell us too much about what is

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going to be involved but what can you

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tell us about the journey whatever you

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having a family yeah what minute boys

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feed them it's been fantastic to witness

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it all happen in it the guy my spell is

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about four years ago just before the

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book was published many stare at goats

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and you know silly they was kind of slow

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your interest I put a bit when I started

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right in the book I started thinking you

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know maybe there was you know it's a

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really clever screenwriter k belong

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maybe there was a movie in this because

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it's a mad story about your special

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forces soldiers trying to harness the

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power of the paradol born and I'm you

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know true story about Major Generals

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trying to walk through their walls and

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secrets arlington virginia and soldiers

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at Fort Bragg trying to kill goats just

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by staring at them in this mad little

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cabal like a real-life conspiracy you

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know it's like this is where they'd sort

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of fantasies of the conspiracy theorists

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come true so I thought this is just a

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fab store in and sure enough just before

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the book got published sort of film

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people called me up and said that they

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wanted to do it and and this screen

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writer called Peter straw the lives near

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me bro just the funniest screenplay and

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straight away we were getting the names

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of work being thrown around or just

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dizzy and people wanted to make the film

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having read Peter screenplay and in the

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end it got made by it's been directed by

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grant Heslov who's who wrote and

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produced good night and good luck and

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films like that and starring george

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clooney Kevin Spacey you and McGregor

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and Jeff British so we you know we

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really

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landed on her feet I will definitely say

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so yes they buzz on the internet movie

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database is is there really any

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potential margin of error that this film

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will end up is one of the cult hot you

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can't hit films of the decade gospel oak

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so yeah I like the fact that people that

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people are saying I'll go and see this

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film I would go and see a film called

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the men who stare at goats no matter

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what it's about and I like back since my

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wife's a deity called to call the book

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so she's thrilled that she's come up

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with her you know what are the great

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movie titles that's wonderful guy that's

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really lovely she turns up in a lot of

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your columns yeah yeah we went off to

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Puerto Rico and watch watch them filming

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it and it was just brilliant you know to

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see these real-life conversations I had

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with people five six years ago suddenly

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being reenacted by humor Greg and George

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Clooney it was a weird experience yeah

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and I believe that it was you have a bit

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of news about them adventures with

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extremists which was your first book you

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said that it was picked up and as an

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option to become a film back in 2005 and

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on your own for board you said there's

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been a bit of development since then

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yeah well I thought nothing was

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happening with it as is what happens

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with most books you know you know 99% of

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books agate auction nothing happened so

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we were you know you're so lucky with

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with George Clooney want me to do goats

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but yen or suddenly there's been another

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sort of fluid and it looks like they are

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interested and they are going to make

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them possibly the next year or year or

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two so again that's just brilliant you

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know these are both books the the

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skeptic community like but don't really

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piss off the community of believers

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either you know it's like a guard over

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you know bridge across the divide I do

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think you know when i read the goat

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script for the first time I felt this is

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a film that skeptics will really really

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like but you know true believers already

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like it as well but if that is the case

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that they can be found you're very

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interested in creating that breach I

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could see that through the article that

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you wrote with your journey with Robbie

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Williams the singer to the Nevada desert

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in order to find out about a you

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fo conference and yeah it was very

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respectful and I could see how Robbie

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Williams was demonstrating a bit of

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skepticism himself and reflecting upon

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your influence in developing that sort

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of critical eye at times yeah i mean i

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can't i can't give myself complete

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credit for breaking out into to Robbie's

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laugh because I've been one or two of

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his friends as a guy called Brandon is a

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real hardcore skeptic and and he was

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always there saying you know Rob this is

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nuts but it was really nice there was

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there was you know Robbie in the middle

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on one side there were friends of hers

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who were real believe it's in this stuff

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you know really believed that everything

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in UFO abductees Edwards was true then

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his other firms would just thought they

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were all insane as it was a look and he

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was in the middle trying to work out

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which one was true so it was really nice

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to see it I don't my guess is that he's

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more on the skeptic camp now than that

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he was a year ago he says every time he

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meets one of these people they're just

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disappointing because they turned out to

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be the nuts or somehow capitalizing on

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their friendship with him will I give

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you some examples yes please for

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instance but I noticed it the first time

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he called me this is back in 2005 he

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said that he wanted to spend the night

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in a haunted house yes I know any yeah

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so I said well I'll make some calls if

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you likes are you build all these ladies

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of banana and kind of big country houses

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in England say get oh dear Lady

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Bracknell I hear that if the portrait in

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your drawing room has moved a ghost

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apparently manifests itself recently the

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pop star robbie williams contacted me to

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say he'd love to spend it at the haunted

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house so i was wondering if he and i

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could pay you a private visit and i kind

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of didn't think any anyone was going to

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email me back but you know one hundred

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percent of the of the Duchess's i

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emailed email straight away to say you

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know yeah yeah absolutely our house is a

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house is definitely haunted Robbie can

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come whenever he likes and then Robbie

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would invite over these famous you know

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sort of paranormal leaders like like

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famous psychics and they'll always rip

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them off you know that always sell sell

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their story to the news of the world you

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know I helped Robbie

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contact is dead man he had a fantastic

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encounter with this guy called Carl BTW

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is the producer of most haunted living

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TV I don't meet we get here yes yeah

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well row pick up a excites invited kyle

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BTW over for dinner and called me up

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afterwards and i said how did it go

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Eddie said wow you know it was alright

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went really well until sort of dessert

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word kyle BTW said to me he said rob you

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know i'm not only the producer of most

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haunted i'm also only one of eight

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people outside japan ever to be awarded

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a summoner I ship out if the Emperor's

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ever in peril I have to drop everything

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and fly over and protect him so Robert

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said to me oh you know doesn't something

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plausible you know so we kind of did it

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did some research should realize that

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you know nobody's been awarded the

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samurai ship since 1872 and the word

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some UI ship doesn't even exist so each

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tabby cutter dips his toe into the water

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of the paranormal he'll you know The

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Skeptical side have always rings alarm

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bells I guess that also brings up the

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question of when is it harmless Robbie

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Williams investigating UFOs heading to a

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conference talking to people you can

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quite easily I view that's harmless

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that's investigating the world around

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even and being a questioning person I

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believe at one point and at one point of

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the article he even said something along

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the lines of I'm just trying to find

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myself maybe it's just a stage maybe I'm

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going to get over it so where is the

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line drawn I mean he himself got very

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early with one particular psychic i

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believe which as you said he felt he was

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just having his fame used to sell a

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newspaper article yeah well i do think

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that you know Robbie try to work out

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whether the paranormals true i mean that

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starts mrs. completely harmless and and

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understandable but the people that you

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meet in these conferences i mean we met

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this woman called an androids who was

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yes she was giving a big she's one of

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the keynote speakers of this convention

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for an alien abductees and it's not her

272
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who was abducted it's her it's her son

273
00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:16,740
had teenage son Jason and she said that

274
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you know poor Jason suffers terrible

275
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:21,510
bullying you know he can't go to the

276
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shop without

277
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:25,200
being screamed her and so after after

278
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she gave her talk Robbie said to an so

279
00:11:32,990 --> 00:11:31,980
when did this boolean start and I said

280
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well it was when i published my first

281
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:36,260
book about Jason which is called Jason

282
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my indigo child raising a

283
00:11:43,580 --> 00:11:41,430
multidimensional star child in a

284
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changing world so kind of stands to

285
00:11:47,090 --> 00:11:44,490
reason that you're going to get some

286
00:11:48,830 --> 00:11:47,100
bullying so so you know Robbie entering

287
00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:48,840
into this world is harvest but what you

288
00:11:53,450 --> 00:11:50,310
found in the world isn't terminus

289
00:11:55,550 --> 00:11:53,460
certainly the family on the side and how

290
00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:55,560
other people can respond to it it

291
00:11:59,690 --> 00:11:57,690
doesn't seem to really come to the

292
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forefront of people's minds at times I

293
00:12:03,380 --> 00:12:01,770
guess yeah well I guess it's like any

294
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sort of fundamentalist religion that

295
00:12:08,690 --> 00:12:05,910
family comes second to belief it's like

296
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these kids who died you know HIV because

297
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their parents don't believe AIDS exists

298
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and so on even you see this stuff

299
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:14,910
happening all the time and I've noticed

300
00:12:18,260 --> 00:12:16,620
that you've described yourself as a

301
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:18,270
rationalist who experiences

302
00:12:22,430 --> 00:12:20,850
approximately one irrational spiral each

303
00:12:25,070 --> 00:12:22,440
week which you then proceed to write a

304
00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:25,080
newspaper column about so what links you

305
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:27,240
to be curious rather than condemning

306
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:30,330
about how irrational we all can be well

307
00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:33,330
because I experienced it myself and you

308
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:36,690
know so do my friends and neighbors I've

309
00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:38,970
always thought for years now probably

310
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:41,790
more than 10 years I've been hanging out

311
00:12:46,370 --> 00:12:43,650
with the sort of people that are of

312
00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:46,380
interest to the skeptical community so

313
00:12:52,030 --> 00:12:49,350
if you were everyone from Islamic

314
00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:52,040
militant leaders through two leading

315
00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:54,840
conspiracy theorists and political

316
00:12:59,720 --> 00:12:56,430
extremists and all this all those people

317
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,730
who are you know usually roundly

318
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:01,680
condemned by the skeptical community but

319
00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:03,720
I you know but I always kind of

320
00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:06,630
recognize certain of my own character

321
00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:09,600
traits in them I get neurotic and worked

322
00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:11,910
up about stupid nonsense and so do my

323
00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:13,830
friends and so I would probably argue I

324
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:15,660
do a lot of skeptics but what they don't

325
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:18,480
do is is realize that there's there's a

326
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:21,060
kind of similarity you know the things

327
00:13:25,700 --> 00:13:22,530
we get worked up about a much more

328
00:13:27,830 --> 00:13:25,710
ordinary domestic you know this person

329
00:13:30,170 --> 00:13:27,840
slighted me and now I can't stand them

330
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:30,180
and this person's our nut and I'm really

331
00:13:33,170 --> 00:13:31,530
worked up about them and I woke up from

332
00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:33,180
rid of the night worrying about this

333
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:34,950
stupid thing that I did you know the

334
00:13:39,270 --> 00:13:36,240
thing that sort of

335
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:39,280
domestica rationality that powers our

336
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:42,130
everyday lives and I just noticed that

337
00:13:47,730 --> 00:13:44,770
people like Alex Jones the stuff they

338
00:13:50,340 --> 00:13:47,740
get worked up about is much crazier than

339
00:13:53,370 --> 00:13:50,350
that it's much more out there but the

340
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:53,380
impulses struck me is quite similar so I

341
00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:55,450
thought if I was going to be a skeptical

342
00:14:00,990 --> 00:13:58,450
writer I had to turn the spotlight on

343
00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:01,000
myself and on my friends and on my own

344
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:03,310
world it was it was a fair thing to do

345
00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:06,610
and even if I don't agree with you know

346
00:14:12,650 --> 00:14:09,400
I there's not a answer to me that

347
00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:12,660
believes that 911 was an inside job or

348
00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:16,900
their ghosts exist and so on so I don't

349
00:14:20,910 --> 00:14:18,670
believe in any of that stuff but

350
00:14:24,510 --> 00:14:20,920
nonetheless I can see that the workings

351
00:14:26,370 --> 00:14:24,520
of their brains I'm not completely you

352
00:14:28,020 --> 00:14:26,380
know I listen to a lot of skeptical

353
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:28,030
vodka so this is something that comes up

354
00:14:31,830 --> 00:14:29,680
quite a lot you know and on the Jerry

355
00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:31,840
rest for them as well yeah why do these

356
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:33,640
people believe the things that they

357
00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:35,230
believe in and I think if we look into

358
00:14:40,950 --> 00:14:37,620
our own minds if we're looking to the

359
00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:40,960
stupid way our own minds though we can

360
00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:43,510
maybe answer that question one of the

361
00:14:47,460 --> 00:14:45,760
other investigations you did which did

362
00:14:49,890 --> 00:14:47,470
look into fundamentalist religion was

363
00:14:52,530 --> 00:14:49,900
the Alpha pause and I had a discussion

364
00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:52,540
with someone at a skeptics conference a

365
00:14:57,570 --> 00:14:54,340
little while back raving about her word

366
00:14:59,760 --> 00:14:57,580
and he said the fact that this man Nikki

367
00:15:02,370 --> 00:14:59,770
Gumbel created a 10-week session that

368
00:15:04,050 --> 00:15:02,380
trains agnostics to become believers he

369
00:15:06,060 --> 00:15:04,060
had hopes that maybe someone would come

370
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:06,070
up with a similar course that would draw

371
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:09,330
someone towards rationalism um how how

372
00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:12,910
reasonable do you think that is that's a

373
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:15,820
great idea I think so we should do it

374
00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:18,160
yeah I think you should throw down the

375
00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:21,550
gauntlet there I'm about to do another

376
00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:23,950
alpha course um really the people who

377
00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:25,780
don't know yeah the people who don't

378
00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:26,950
know the arthur course is this 10-week

379
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:30,550
course that tries to get agnostic to

380
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:32,350
become true believe this by the end of

381
00:15:36,270 --> 00:15:34,000
the course and i have to say you know

382
00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:36,280
it's it's brilliantly dumb you know the

383
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:38,470
way it's constructed by by by its

384
00:15:42,450 --> 00:15:40,210
inventor whose ago kubicki gumbo whoo

385
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:42,460
soo who runs a huge church in London

386
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:45,850
alphas you know enormously burger suits

387
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:48,010
you got it in Australia

388
00:15:51,510 --> 00:15:49,600
I wouldn't be surprised if there's

389
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:51,520
elements of it out he we get all sorts

390
00:15:57,870 --> 00:15:54,910
of triple on effects from the UK and the

391
00:15:59,970 --> 00:15:57,880
US of certain Greek salad over here

392
00:16:03,680 --> 00:15:59,980
they'll buy anything because they bought

393
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:03,690
at a time like Monty Python precise on

394
00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:07,210
yeah but but yeah the way it's

395
00:16:10,950 --> 00:16:09,070
constructed basically you get a talk at

396
00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:10,960
the beginning of each week the you know

397
00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:12,700
whichever pastoral vicar is running this

398
00:16:16,530 --> 00:16:14,200
church gives the talk and then there's

399
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:16,540
dinner and then you split up into these

400
00:16:22,050 --> 00:16:19,570
groups of 10 and a discussion happens

401
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:22,060
and and the power of the small group

402
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:23,410
when I guess it's like Alcoholics

403
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,880
Anonymous you know you can't

404
00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:26,320
underestimate the power of the small

405
00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:29,350
group it's amazing watching these

406
00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:30,790
agnostic sand is that there's a group

407
00:16:35,940 --> 00:16:34,150
leader who's a Christian and yeah but

408
00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:35,950
the idea is that these acoustics will

409
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:37,840
talk themselves into being Christians

410
00:16:41,850 --> 00:16:40,090
and and I've always been you know I

411
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:41,860
really like the piece I wrote that alpha

412
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:43,570
which is quite a long time ago mouths

413
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:46,480
like eight years ago so I've decided to

414
00:16:51,660 --> 00:16:49,090
make a documentary inside an alpha

415
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:51,670
course to hopefully capture you know

416
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:54,130
this incredible small group dynamic and

417
00:16:57,330 --> 00:16:55,210
we're going to start in a couple of

418
00:16:59,340 --> 00:16:57,340
weeks that's wonderful news that's great

419
00:17:01,470 --> 00:16:59,350
you've been very busy doing I guess

420
00:17:03,330 --> 00:17:01,480
we've all of these events happening yeah

421
00:17:05,670 --> 00:17:03,340
yeah it's been a busy time pretty

422
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,680
stressful just outside last seven

423
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:07,600
building a kind of intervention the

424
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:08,890
other day saying what was too stressed

425
00:17:12,090 --> 00:17:10,510
out though that's what I mean about how

426
00:17:14,939 --> 00:17:12,100
we shouldn't think of ourselves as

427
00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:14,949
better than the people we attack there's

428
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:16,270
the things they believe it might be

429
00:17:22,170 --> 00:17:19,329
absurd and crazy by and large like 911

430
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:22,180
being an inside job and so on but the

431
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:24,880
way their mind works is not wholly alien

432
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:27,280
I would say to the way people's minds

433
00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:29,110
work in the mainstream domestic world

434
00:17:33,030 --> 00:17:30,940
the way that one thought can lead to

435
00:17:35,310 --> 00:17:33,040
another thought and it can spiral you

436
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,320
see what I mean yes absolutely I guess

437
00:17:39,030 --> 00:17:37,120
the end of the spiral is another thing

438
00:17:41,730 --> 00:17:39,040
that we have to reflect upon to and

439
00:17:44,010 --> 00:17:41,740
whether or not people can grow out of it

440
00:17:46,050 --> 00:17:44,020
or reason themselves out of it for

441
00:17:48,210 --> 00:17:46,060
example we had an earlier interview with

442
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:48,220
Mark Roberts in New York talking about

443
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:51,130
well in his interview he described it as

444
00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:54,490
a post-mortem of the 911 truthers

445
00:17:59,580 --> 00:17:56,710
movement that it was indeed dying out

446
00:18:02,289 --> 00:17:59,590
that the height of its power was 2006

447
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:02,299
well it's funny I haven't noticed that

448
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:05,450
but now you say it I think it's true so

449
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:08,210
it knew the attacks on me have gone I'm

450
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,110
were at their high in about 2006 yeah

451
00:18:15,370 --> 00:18:14,240
that to be a time when they had to put

452
00:18:16,990 --> 00:18:15,380
their money where their mouths words

453
00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:17,000
right there had to be a time when they

454
00:18:21,340 --> 00:18:19,580
had to produce some evidence to back up

455
00:18:25,930 --> 00:18:21,350
their claims some real irrefutable

456
00:18:28,810 --> 00:18:25,940
evidence and they never did so I guess I

457
00:18:31,419 --> 00:18:28,820
guess if it is dying that's the reason

458
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:31,429
why for my own part I wondered whether

459
00:18:36,730 --> 00:18:34,370
or not the election of Obama had perhaps

460
00:18:39,310 --> 00:18:36,740
an influence upon these people's beliefs

461
00:18:41,409 --> 00:18:39,320
that now maybe it's in fresh start the

462
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:41,419
bushier is over let's wipe it clean

463
00:18:47,019 --> 00:18:44,450
start ahead optimistically perhaps yeah

464
00:18:49,389 --> 00:18:47,029
it's possible I mean you know movements

465
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:49,399
die I remember the you know the militia

466
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,110
movement the neo-nazi movement in

467
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:53,600
America pretty much died with the

468
00:18:59,139 --> 00:18:56,240
Oklahoma City bombing that it was

469
00:19:01,840 --> 00:18:59,149
somebody from within their own world who

470
00:19:04,419 --> 00:19:01,850
killed 186 people i think it was

471
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:04,429
including up you know crash of children

472
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:07,610
and it shocked the neo-nazi world so

473
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:09,770
much in America that pretty much died

474
00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:11,090
away and you know you'd be hard-pressed

475
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:14,270
to find a thriving militia in America

476
00:19:18,850 --> 00:19:16,730
now so nothing seismic like that has

477
00:19:21,970 --> 00:19:18,860
happened in the 911 truth movement but

478
00:19:23,889 --> 00:19:21,980
you're right it's going I I wonder

479
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:23,899
whether the fact that it got hijacked so

480
00:19:28,659 --> 00:19:26,720
much by unpleasant people you know maybe

481
00:19:31,330 --> 00:19:28,669
the kind-hearted people who got involved

482
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:31,340
in the early days you know became so

483
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:34,010
shouty on the internet and maybe as you

484
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:36,890
say yeah Obama coming in whatever it is

485
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:38,450
I think it's quite a blessed relief I

486
00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:40,130
think there's genuine things to be

487
00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:42,230
worried about in this world and you know

488
00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:44,360
fantasies I'm one of them yeah certainly

489
00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:46,580
one of the wonderful things about the

490
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:49,460
Internet is okay sure we get youtube

491
00:19:54,250 --> 00:19:52,010
videos which are promoting some of these

492
00:19:56,769 --> 00:19:54,260
rather odd ideas in certainly dangerous

493
00:19:58,539 --> 00:19:56,779
ideas but more and more I see people

494
00:20:01,120 --> 00:19:58,549
fighting back producing their own

495
00:20:03,070 --> 00:20:01,130
YouTube videos their own materials and a

496
00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:03,080
lot of your own work has started popping

497
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:04,940
up online I've noticed that you're not

498
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:08,690
opposed to for example mp3's of some of

499
00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:10,250
your work popping up online

500
00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:12,230
have you considered about getting more

501
00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:14,990
into online broadcasting yeah I know

502
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:16,880
that I should I mean you know you right

503
00:20:21,490 --> 00:20:18,650
there if anybody I've been puts my films

504
00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:21,500
up on youtube or google video or my

505
00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:25,040
radio shows up on i'm always all forward

506
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:26,750
because i think it's better to produce

507
00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:28,490
you know to go to dissipate something

508
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:30,020
for nothing they're not distributed at

509
00:20:33,670 --> 00:20:31,970
all you know i know that i should i

510
00:20:36,550 --> 00:20:33,680
should be writing blogs and i should be

511
00:20:38,380 --> 00:20:36,560
doing podcasts and all of that you so

512
00:20:40,540 --> 00:20:38,390
much already as well that's the thing

513
00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:40,550
well that's the thing I work so hard and

514
00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:42,230
I'm frankly by about three o'clock in

515
00:20:45,820 --> 00:20:44,390
the afternoon I'm just knackered you

516
00:20:47,620 --> 00:20:45,830
know the last I got to do is any more

517
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:47,630
work I wanted to sort either slumped

518
00:20:51,460 --> 00:20:49,520
onto the sofa you know good to the gym

519
00:20:55,060 --> 00:20:51,470
or something and so I think I work hard

520
00:20:56,770 --> 00:20:55,070
enough but if I had more energy you know

521
00:20:59,470 --> 00:20:56,780
if I had the energy of myself when I was

522
00:21:01,450 --> 00:20:59,480
about 28 I would do it I would be doing

523
00:21:03,340 --> 00:21:01,460
a podcast definitely you know i'm a big

524
00:21:05,890 --> 00:21:03,350
fan of them and i'm delighted to be

525
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:05,900
doing this one so i wish i had the

526
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:08,720
gumption to do me on yeah one of the

527
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:11,210
things that you do do however um you do

528
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:13,520
the UK skeptics in the pub and you're

529
00:21:19,030 --> 00:21:16,640
becoming more active as a as a skeptic

530
00:21:21,370 --> 00:21:19,040
who is talking to other skeptics and

531
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:21,380
taking part in activities um how

532
00:21:25,150 --> 00:21:23,690
enjoyable of those are you okay yeah no

533
00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:25,160
really I don't those guests in the pub

534
00:21:28,810 --> 00:21:27,200
fed so gray uh I never sort of thought I

535
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:28,820
was a skeptic you know what I wrote them

536
00:21:32,860 --> 00:21:31,610
and the minister goats actually i didn't

537
00:21:34,030 --> 00:21:32,870
i didn't consider I didn't even realize

538
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:34,040
that there was like a kind of movement

539
00:21:37,810 --> 00:21:36,410
of people who were interested in the

540
00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:37,820
same things I was interested in and

541
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:39,230
basically believe the same things I

542
00:21:42,910 --> 00:21:41,330
believed it came to toe surprised

543
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:42,920
enriched I didn't realize that Jay ref

544
00:21:47,650 --> 00:21:45,770
existed or any of these you know skeptic

545
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:47,660
podcasts existed I just didn't know I

546
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:49,130
don't think that's what i was doing when

547
00:21:52,620 --> 00:21:51,290
i was writing them and goats I thought I

548
00:21:55,330 --> 00:21:52,630
was distracting this kind of funny

549
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:55,340
adventure stories try to get inside the

550
00:21:59,680 --> 00:21:57,770
minds of people who you know mines had

551
00:22:01,150 --> 00:21:59,690
spiraled to the kind of crazy place like

552
00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:01,160
David Icke believe in this world for

553
00:22:05,710 --> 00:22:03,590
lizards and so on so I didn't see it as

554
00:22:06,850 --> 00:22:05,720
a kind of position at all but I'll tell

555
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:06,860
you what it was I think it was Mark

556
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:08,930
Roberts or certainly one of the nine

557
00:22:14,740 --> 00:22:12,410
eleven people gravy gravy smart Roberts

558
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:14,750
isn't it he is ordered to speaks very

559
00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:17,360
good I'll cool well I think it was him i

560
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:20,780
think he emailed me and invited me to to

561
00:22:24,290 --> 00:22:23,570
have a look at the j ref for and so I

562
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:24,300
did

563
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:25,710
and I was just really surprised like

564
00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:29,280
everyone I'd ever hung out with from you

565
00:22:34,250 --> 00:22:31,560
know oma baku mohammed ur alex jones to

566
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:34,260
david icke to Jim Tucker you know all of

567
00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:35,840
these people were being kind of

568
00:22:41,630 --> 00:22:38,460
discussed by you know people who were

569
00:22:43,220 --> 00:22:41,640
equally enthusiastic interested in bed

570
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,230
and I just thought it was a mess and

571
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:45,720
Sylvia Browne and you know these people

572
00:22:49,010 --> 00:22:47,280
who fascinated made suddenly you know

573
00:22:52,490 --> 00:22:49,020
what fascinating this massive group of

574
00:22:54,650 --> 00:22:52,500
people so so now I go on jf almost every

575
00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:54,660
day and I listen to the skeptics guide

576
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:56,760
to the universe and you know I kind of

577
00:22:59,780 --> 00:22:58,140
really consider myself part of the gang

578
00:23:01,700 --> 00:22:59,790
I mean I suppose I think they're always

579
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:01,710
disappoints me a bit oh you I do learn

580
00:23:05,060 --> 00:23:02,910
things by the way I you know I bought

581
00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:05,070
this airborne you know this vitamin C

582
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:07,020
fizzy thing that you stickin you know

583
00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:09,480
that I swear by I know it turns out to

584
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:12,630
be total nonsense so so disappointed me

585
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:14,400
i only found that up from like going on

586
00:23:19,610 --> 00:23:17,370
a rush I had no idea so now of course

587
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:19,620
you know what's stopping colds because

588
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:21,210
of the placebo effects but now won't

589
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:23,370
work at all but I do learn more and more

590
00:23:26,210 --> 00:23:25,050
when i go on to these sites and listen

591
00:23:28,420 --> 00:23:26,220
to these podcasts you know there's still

592
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:28,430
areas that i don't know about aspose

593
00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:31,770
goats and them sort of informed that

594
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:33,240
world because of all the research i did

595
00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:35,370
you wrote them but that world is also

596
00:23:39,380 --> 00:23:37,950
informing me and in fact the piece i did

597
00:23:42,170 --> 00:23:39,390
on i did a piece when i went on a cruise

598
00:23:44,750 --> 00:23:42,180
with Sylvia Browne and metro and you

599
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:44,760
know sort of challenged her although she

600
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:46,770
was so terrified I did tryna show choirs

601
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:49,440
quite as well as I should have but you

602
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:51,570
know that came from reading about her on

603
00:23:56,030 --> 00:23:54,570
the giraffe forum so you know so it's

604
00:23:58,010 --> 00:23:56,040
kind of this kind of traffic of

605
00:24:01,460 --> 00:23:58,020
informations going both ways I think and

606
00:24:03,230 --> 00:24:01,470
I I'd like to think that I was still a

607
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:03,240
bit more open-minded or certainly more

608
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:05,010
humanist you know but my one criticism

609
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:08,910
of the movement is sometimes the objects

610
00:24:14,180 --> 00:24:11,460
of their derision are treated with you

611
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:14,190
know total disrespect which is

612
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:16,530
understandable to a large extent because

613
00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:19,110
they're peddling nonsense but I still

614
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:21,480
like to think that when I meet those

615
00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:24,090
people you know on a human level we get

616
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,310
on well and we can respect each other

617
00:24:30,740 --> 00:24:28,320
and the way I write about them could be

618
00:24:32,150 --> 00:24:30,750
respectful so I suppose that's where I

619
00:24:34,850 --> 00:24:32,160
differ with some of the people in

620
00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:34,860
skeptical community it's what if you

621
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:36,780
don't I mean yes I do know what

622
00:24:40,790 --> 00:24:38,400
mean it's one of the reasons why i

623
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:40,800
support dragoncon because there is a

624
00:24:45,290 --> 00:24:42,810
place for everybody there the

625
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:45,300
paranormalists the skeptics they are

626
00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:47,130
both equally welcome they both have

627
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:48,990
their own tracks there and there's a

628
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:51,450
debate that happens where respect and

629
00:24:57,500 --> 00:24:54,690
dialogue between the two is is paramount

630
00:24:59,120 --> 00:24:57,510
you cannot just have isolation and

631
00:25:01,940 --> 00:24:59,130
certain well you cannot have someone

632
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:01,950
writing a book called them the skeptics

633
00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:04,050
in response and saying look at them they

634
00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:07,500
are just as crazy as they call us I mean

635
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:09,060
that's not that it isn't how it's

636
00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:12,960
supposed to work yeah absolutely I'm

637
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:14,760
thinking about registering for dragoncon

638
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:18,210
yes that would be fabulous yeah i agree

639
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:20,370
i mean you know i couldn't agree we'll

640
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:22,530
blow with you but I'm not in that I'm

641
00:25:26,780 --> 00:25:24,930
not attacking you know people the people

642
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:26,790
who are more hardline skeptics I'm not

643
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:28,290
attacking some of the jurors people

644
00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:31,710
because you know I understand why it's

645
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:33,990
very easy to get really worked up about

646
00:25:37,820 --> 00:25:35,730
people especially when they're attacking

647
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:37,830
you amiguita when the 911 movement was

648
00:25:42,860 --> 00:25:40,650
attacking me as viciously as it was you

649
00:25:45,230 --> 00:25:42,870
know I became you know just furious with

650
00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:45,240
them and I saw no good in them at all so

651
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:47,400
I really do understand but at the same

652
00:25:51,770 --> 00:25:49,410
time I think it's a kind of gift to be

653
00:25:54,260 --> 00:25:51,780
able to to turn up and have a pleasant

654
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:54,270
tube8 with them where people actually

655
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,810
gain gain something from being you know

656
00:26:01,580 --> 00:25:59,520
these these opposing camps and being

657
00:26:05,330 --> 00:26:01,590
with each other than just hating each

658
00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:05,340
other so dragoncon sounds great so any

659
00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:07,230
future events that you'll be taking part

660
00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:10,470
in or upcoming documentaries and

661
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:13,380
certainly the film release of the men

662
00:26:20,050 --> 00:26:15,120
who stare at goats they can go to your

663
00:26:23,270 --> 00:26:20,060
website which is wwan calm can't they

664
00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:23,280
yeah there's no action John jo n ro

665
00:26:27,380 --> 00:26:25,140
Ernesto one you've been asked to get

666
00:26:30,140 --> 00:26:27,390
some new members as well we're quite cut

667
00:26:32,030 --> 00:26:30,150
a small guy at the moment so be nice to

668
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:32,040
get some new members all I'm doing at

669
00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:34,170
the moment is is writing i'm making this

670
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:36,270
alpha film and i'm doing a new series of

671
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:38,370
my radio 4 series but other than that

672
00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:40,050
i'm just writing some screenplays and

673
00:26:45,830 --> 00:26:43,470
try to work on a new book so it's quite

674
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:45,840
sort of quiet time for me but i think

675
00:26:50,570 --> 00:26:47,460
the release of the men who stare at

676
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,580
goats is going to change all that

677
00:26:54,590 --> 00:26:52,559
that's going to be a big film you know

678
00:26:56,029 --> 00:26:54,600
the script is fantastic and what I saw

679
00:26:59,210 --> 00:26:56,039
the filming it looked like they were

680
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,220
doing it like really brilliantly and so

681
00:27:02,750 --> 00:27:01,679
I've got high expectations for it i

682
00:27:05,210 --> 00:27:02,760
think is going to be a really good film

683
00:27:09,169 --> 00:27:05,220
any quickens about what the new books

684
00:27:11,899 --> 00:27:09,179
going to be around nah because i will i

685
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:11,909
will interpret every not only would it

686
00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:14,880
be sort of wrong to say because it would

687
00:27:18,980 --> 00:27:16,769
be kind of indiscreet but also because i

688
00:27:21,470 --> 00:27:18,990
would interpret your response you know

689
00:27:24,259 --> 00:27:21,480
it's like if you went oh I'd interpret

690
00:27:27,769 --> 00:27:24,269
that as you thinking that sounds crap so

691
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:27,779
yeah so I've got to I've got to take

692
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,330
completely silent about it but it's not

693
00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:31,919
that dissimilar I'm trying to write a

694
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:34,380
book that people who liked then and the

695
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:35,970
men who stare at goats would like you

696
00:27:39,529 --> 00:27:37,110
know it's certainly not a kind of

697
00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:39,539
massive it's not a romantic novel and

698
00:27:44,269 --> 00:27:41,880
considers the books also set in this

699
00:27:46,669 --> 00:27:44,279
world well we will love your work

700
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:46,679
regardless uncertain and we're sending

701
00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:49,320
you an origami DVD which was created by

702
00:27:54,289 --> 00:27:52,230
Richard Saunders and Jim will share the

703
00:27:56,570 --> 00:27:54,299
rhyme keeper so I hope you enjoy those

704
00:27:58,700 --> 00:27:56,580
and we are certainly going to enjoy your

705
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:58,710
forthcoming work both on a silver screen

706
00:28:03,379 --> 00:28:01,679
and on the page oh well thank you very

707
00:28:17,890 --> 00:28:03,389
much indeed curly and thank you to

708
00:28:24,050 --> 00:28:21,170
hi I'm Theo Clark host and reduce of the

709
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:24,060
podcast hunting humbug 101 each week I'm

710
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:26,250
joined by my father Jeff Clark and we

711
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:28,050
discuss a particular logical fallacy

712
00:28:31,670 --> 00:28:30,150
with real-life examples of fallacies

713
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:31,680
from pseudo science science

714
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:34,050
misconceptions politics philosophy and

715
00:28:39,860 --> 00:28:37,440
the media hacking humbug 101 is a

716
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:39,870
companion podcast to our book humbug the

717
00:28:44,150 --> 00:28:41,910
skeptics field guide to spotting

718
00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:44,160
fallacies in thinking you can download

719
00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:46,830
them and subscribe to our podcast obtain

720
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:48,870
a free copy of the ebook version of our

721
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:51,120
book humbug and see many more real

722
00:28:59,410 --> 00:28:53,310
examples of fallacious reasoning at our

723
00:29:10,870 --> 00:28:59,420
website wwc upticks field guide dot net

724
00:29:19,250 --> 00:29:14,480
the open laboratory the best writing on

725
00:29:21,620 --> 00:29:19,260
science blogs 2008 is now out it's a

726
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:21,630
yearly anthology featuring skeptical

727
00:29:26,660 --> 00:29:24,090
bloggers from around the world science

728
00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:26,670
blog readers nominate favorite posts

729
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:29,940
with only 50 selected from about 500

730
00:29:36,170 --> 00:29:32,580
entries including one cartoon and one

731
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:36,180
poem bora of blog around the clock on

732
00:29:43,340 --> 00:29:39,450
science blogs com has run it for the

733
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:43,350
past three years and for 2008 the editor

734
00:29:49,850 --> 00:29:46,710
is Jennifer Rowan from mind the gap blog

735
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:49,860
on the Nature Network Kylie Sturgis

736
00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:51,930
reporter for the skeptic zone has been

737
00:30:01,850 --> 00:29:55,740
selected with an entry from her blog pod

738
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:01,860
black cat at ww.com she joins other

739
00:30:06,530 --> 00:30:04,290
great well known science bloggers such

740
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:06,540
as dr. Phil plates the bad astronomy

741
00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:10,770
blog and popular web cartoon XK CD and

742
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:15,240
the digital cuttlefish of ww digital

743
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:19,830
cuddlefish blogspot com check out how to

744
00:30:25,820 --> 00:30:22,020
get your own copy of the open laboratory

745
00:30:30,460 --> 00:30:25,830
the best writing on science blogs 2008

746
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:30,470
by heading to WWI enca blogs com

747
00:30:43,930 --> 00:30:41,800
the amazing adventure to cruise north to

748
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:43,940
Alaska was held from the second to the

749
00:30:49,270 --> 00:30:46,880
ninth of sep tember 2007 aboard the

750
00:30:51,550 --> 00:30:49,280
celebrity cruise lines infinity vessel

751
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:51,560
joining us on the cruise was none other

752
00:30:57,940 --> 00:30:54,770
than James Randi himself Phil Plait the

753
00:31:01,360 --> 00:30:57,950
bad astronomer how bid lack Jeff wag and

754
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:01,370
skip chick rebecca watson the ship left

755
00:31:08,410 --> 00:31:04,480
vancouver sailed up the inside passage

756
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:08,420
where we visited Ketchikan Alaska then

757
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:10,970
the hubbard glacier before turning back

758
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:14,090
visiting juno icy strait point and

759
00:31:20,170 --> 00:31:17,810
finally arriving back in vancouver the

760
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:20,180
cruise gave everybody the chance to sit

761
00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:22,370
and talk with James Randi and I took my

762
00:31:30,269 --> 00:31:27,000
opportunity one morning over breakfast

763
00:31:32,010 --> 00:31:30,279
we're on the amazing adventure to up the

764
00:31:34,649 --> 00:31:32,020
coast of Alaska on here having breakfast

765
00:31:36,930 --> 00:31:34,659
with mr. James Randy Randy now you are a

766
00:31:40,890 --> 00:31:36,940
seasoned traveler to say the least what

767
00:31:42,779 --> 00:31:40,900
sure your saves advice for travelers the

768
00:31:45,659 --> 00:31:42,789
world well this is the season of my

769
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:45,669
discontent let's put it that way the

770
00:31:52,529 --> 00:31:47,679
ship there's been rolling like crazy

771
00:31:55,260 --> 00:31:52,539
during the night and it it was not quite

772
00:31:57,180 --> 00:31:55,270
seat it's down to a reasonable roll

773
00:31:59,510 --> 00:31:57,190
right now we've got mr. it's in the

774
00:32:01,860 --> 00:31:59,520
background as you can hear me but no I

775
00:32:05,850 --> 00:32:01,870
they just got your joke from last night

776
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:05,860
yeah I'm having a wonderful time it's

777
00:32:12,510 --> 00:32:07,840
very stimulating to be with such good

778
00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:12,520
friends and fans here and i like the

779
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:14,049
little curtsies that people give when I

780
00:32:18,060 --> 00:32:15,820
hands by and you know that's her

781
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:18,070
standing to attention yes and I give

782
00:32:23,250 --> 00:32:21,130
them a quick blessing as I passed I know

783
00:32:26,010 --> 00:32:23,260
it's really fun ritual to would be here

784
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:26,020
with folks like you who from some

785
00:32:31,049 --> 00:32:28,330
distance to be here and that's very

786
00:32:33,389 --> 00:32:31,059
flattering indeed and I have not seen

787
00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:33,399
this part of the world before and

788
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:34,870
certainly not from this particular

789
00:32:40,590 --> 00:32:38,110
vantage point with so I'm having a very

790
00:32:42,269 --> 00:32:40,600
good time I'm highly entertained and I

791
00:32:44,250 --> 00:32:42,279
hope that along the way I might provide

792
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,260
some of the entertainment I think that

793
00:32:49,740 --> 00:32:46,480
the situation like this even though

794
00:32:51,539 --> 00:32:49,750
we're on a large vessel box it's much

795
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:51,549
like your amazing meetings it simply a

796
00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:53,500
great opportunity to make new friends to

797
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:55,630
network like many social organizations I

798
00:33:01,049 --> 00:32:58,570
guess well you know we we launched this

799
00:33:01,690 --> 00:33:01,059
this cruise as we have with others and

800
00:33:03,970 --> 00:33:01,700
with

801
00:33:07,060 --> 00:33:03,980
meetings and such for purposes of

802
00:33:09,789 --> 00:33:07,070
funding the J raft that's very obvious

803
00:33:13,389 --> 00:33:09,799
and we've never concealed the facts

804
00:33:16,090 --> 00:33:13,399
about it but on this particular venture

805
00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:16,100
we won't make very much money but that's

806
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:18,950
not the only purpose of it the purpose

807
00:33:26,529 --> 00:33:23,330
of interacting with friends of like mind

808
00:33:28,029 --> 00:33:26,539
and I've done a great deal about in just

809
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:28,039
the last couple of days and we're barely

810
00:33:33,370 --> 00:33:31,490
started on this metric it's been most

811
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:33,380
rewarding in that respect that's

812
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:36,049
touching the flesh and making sure that

813
00:33:42,430 --> 00:33:40,610
people i have met I to I and I as I made

814
00:33:45,159 --> 00:33:42,440
a little speech at the very beginning Oh

815
00:33:47,259 --> 00:33:45,169
when we first boarded here I want people

816
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:47,269
to come over and make sure that I shake

817
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:48,799
their hand I look him straight in the

818
00:33:52,659 --> 00:33:51,049
eye and what questions have begun and

819
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:52,669
people have followed me up on that

820
00:33:58,180 --> 00:33:55,730
invitation and it cornered me I'm very

821
00:34:00,129 --> 00:33:58,190
gladly and happily cornered and let's

822
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,139
say I have no objection to it in fact I

823
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:03,200
encourage it so if it's been wonderful

824
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:05,090
it's just been wonderful a good good

825
00:34:10,510 --> 00:34:07,810
experience and though I'm a little

826
00:34:12,369 --> 00:34:10,520
annoyed at being out of cell phone reach

827
00:34:14,349 --> 00:34:12,379
and Internet reach with the law and

828
00:34:17,079 --> 00:34:14,359
until we come to the next port as I've

829
00:34:19,930 --> 00:34:17,089
got to send in the week a coffee a swift

830
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:19,940
in person that shirt impairs on me but

831
00:34:23,139 --> 00:34:21,200
I've got it all prepared to shin the

832
00:34:26,020 --> 00:34:23,149
computer and ready to press a button to

833
00:34:28,270 --> 00:34:26,030
say transmit right so I'm looking after

834
00:34:30,099 --> 00:34:28,280
my duties at the same time so how do you

835
00:34:33,089 --> 00:34:30,109
think this compares to the amazing

836
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:33,099
meetings which ride three day events

837
00:34:37,059 --> 00:34:35,510
literally I am viviette to go to and I

838
00:34:39,460 --> 00:34:37,069
hope to go everyone next year but this

839
00:34:40,690 --> 00:34:39,470
is a seven day cruise so innocent good

840
00:34:43,569 --> 00:34:40,700
hitting on what's a different thing

841
00:34:45,250 --> 00:34:43,579
altogether and you know we can break

842
00:34:46,419 --> 00:34:45,260
away from a group and the next day we

843
00:34:47,950 --> 00:34:46,429
know that they'll be around someplace

844
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:47,960
you know join them at the breakfast

845
00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:49,970
table or whatever and continue on with

846
00:34:53,379 --> 00:34:50,990
the conversations

847
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:53,389
has that advantage it says wonderful

848
00:34:59,380 --> 00:34:56,810
opportunity to interact with the

849
00:35:01,630 --> 00:34:59,390
faithful my soda sleeping it's a smaller

850
00:35:03,550 --> 00:35:01,640
group than amazing meeting aspects

851
00:35:05,050 --> 00:35:03,560
people do then have the opportunity to

852
00:35:07,180 --> 00:35:05,060
spend a little bit more time with you oh

853
00:35:10,570 --> 00:35:07,190
yes you must be a little overwhelmed

854
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:10,580
sometimes the meetings oh no no no gosh

855
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:12,640
well I'm so busy at the meeting I use

856
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:15,290
yeah I I don't know who I spoken to her

857
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:17,750
what I said but you know the last

858
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:20,450
amazing meeting we had 810 people in

859
00:35:24,910 --> 00:35:22,610
attendance that's about huge red very

860
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:24,920
hard to manage which we got 93 people on

861
00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:28,610
this cruise and them that's much more

862
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:31,630
Asian as you said much more handleable

863
00:35:36,580 --> 00:35:34,880
number and a little whatever you had a

864
00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:36,590
good word I like that with all right

865
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:39,380
guys well I just invented a subject that

866
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:42,050
any case it's been a very good rewarding

867
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:45,290
experience and I'm enjoying every mr.

868
00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:52,490
Lynch Thank You certainly one of the

869
00:35:58,060 --> 00:35:54,440
highlights of the cruise was the chance

870
00:36:00,640 --> 00:35:58,070
to see hubbard glacier up close very

871
00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:00,650
close as a matter of fact the vessel

872
00:36:07,210 --> 00:36:03,380
pulled into the inlet where the glacier

873
00:36:09,550 --> 00:36:07,220
meets the ocean and we spent a good half

874
00:36:13,450 --> 00:36:09,560
an hour to 45 minutes as the captain

875
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:13,460
slowly turned the vessel around this

876
00:36:18,490 --> 00:36:15,530
gave everybody the chance to rush up to

877
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:18,500
the top decks take photographs take

878
00:36:23,290 --> 00:36:20,450
photographs and then take some more

879
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:23,300
photographs I bumped into some skeptics

880
00:36:30,089 --> 00:36:26,410
also enjoying the view

881
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:30,099
this is the walking up to the glacier up

882
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:33,250
here now I'm here on the deck that

883
00:36:38,250 --> 00:36:36,160
fourth need a cover so infinity vessel

884
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:38,260
we're viewing the glacier and sometimes

885
00:36:43,410 --> 00:36:41,710
bits of it are falling off and I'm here

886
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:43,420
with a lovely skeptical Texas can you

887
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:45,730
introduce yourself I'm Susan Hurst from

888
00:36:49,950 --> 00:36:47,680
Fort Worth and what do you think of the

889
00:36:51,779 --> 00:36:49,960
view so far it's incredible it was

890
00:36:53,819 --> 00:36:51,789
routine anything like it it's stunning

891
00:36:57,930 --> 00:36:53,829
the end of the glacier here and it is

892
00:37:00,240 --> 00:36:57,940
blue it's stunningly blue ice I've never

893
00:37:01,620 --> 00:37:00,250
seen anything like it in my life the

894
00:37:04,319 --> 00:37:01,630
mountains are surrounding us and there's

895
00:37:06,839 --> 00:37:04,329
lots of people here up on deck but you

896
00:37:09,359 --> 00:37:06,849
you've joined the amazing courses this

897
00:37:12,510 --> 00:37:09,369
your first amazing event or your

898
00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:12,520
destroyed it's my fourth yeah I've been

899
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:14,500
to two amazing meetings and this is our

900
00:37:19,170 --> 00:37:17,049
second freeze your second cruise oh wow

901
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:19,180
well be amazing adventure one through

902
00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:22,450
the Bermuda Triangle to a last mobile

903
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:25,390
that's quite a difference it is and

904
00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:27,130
that's what makes it really special yeah

905
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:29,500
some of the same people on both cruises

906
00:37:33,870 --> 00:37:29,950
and

907
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:33,880
people all good it's all good that's I

908
00:37:37,020 --> 00:37:35,650
tell you folks that the benefits of

909
00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:37,030
being a skeptic at too numerous to

910
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:39,220
mention especially when you can see this

911
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:43,089
incredible view now as we are now moving

912
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:46,450
away from the Glacia we can look further

913
00:37:50,250 --> 00:37:48,010
back and see there's incredible

914
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:50,260
mountains with the snow streaked about

915
00:37:56,060 --> 00:37:52,450
them and they're not far from the vessel

916
00:37:58,170 --> 00:37:56,070
either more and more people sort of

917
00:38:00,599 --> 00:37:58,180
gathering around to look at all this I'm

918
00:38:03,089 --> 00:38:00,609
here i can see Phil played the bad

919
00:38:04,589 --> 00:38:03,099
astronomer and his wife and groups of

920
00:38:06,839 --> 00:38:04,599
other people that's another thing about

921
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:06,849
these events isn't it the people are

922
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:09,130
incredible and you get to talk to people

923
00:38:12,690 --> 00:38:10,810
that you wouldn't imagine you would get

924
00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:12,700
to talk to have dinner with James Randi

925
00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:22,740
tickets and of course with you oh look

926
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:25,480
it's incredible

927
00:38:31,660 --> 00:38:29,330
hi now here with Phil Plait the bad

928
00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:31,670
astronomer Phil I know you're somewhat

929
00:38:36,970 --> 00:38:34,580
disappointed with the crew so far and

930
00:38:41,230 --> 00:38:36,980
especially this mediocre most Lisa

931
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:41,240
guests the guests is it Dan I was told

932
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:43,850
cattle would be born and this camping is

933
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:44,930
just completely different than I

934
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:49,960
that wasn't true that wasn't me that was

935
00:38:55,210 --> 00:38:52,490
how you can take that out right I can

936
00:38:57,250 --> 00:38:55,220
have it that obvious and now that that's

937
00:38:58,870 --> 00:38:57,260
just to the glacier and fallen off

938
00:39:01,420 --> 00:38:58,880
in front of us now some cruise away from

939
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:01,430
it like tiny mini eight little icebergs

940
00:39:06,820 --> 00:39:02,510
but apparently they haven't said

941
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:06,830
although we do that way too late it's on

942
00:39:11,650 --> 00:39:10,010
the other side up now let's mix of the

943
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:11,660
classier falling off with you happier oh

944
00:39:19,620 --> 00:39:14,930
yeah let me create a little wave comes

945
00:39:25,110 --> 00:39:19,630
off from oh wow here's an iceberg right

946
00:39:28,990 --> 00:39:25,120
yep right nearest now that's an iceberg

947
00:39:32,380 --> 00:39:29,000
the bug look maybe yeah I like that's a

948
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:32,390
big one right there again the incredible

949
00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:35,250
blue color of the ice

950
00:39:42,620 --> 00:39:38,910
she just passed frozen bird in that

951
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:42,630
thing um it might be I don't know what

952
00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:45,690
art is they're really mice chasing acorn

953
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:48,180
to their favorite or advice but the

954
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:51,810
world chasing acharya with it the sound

955
00:39:57,590 --> 00:39:55,050
to a doctor this is really phenomenal

956
00:40:00,170 --> 00:39:57,600
look at this look biggie just big enough

957
00:40:01,610 --> 00:40:00,180
a little like Lincoln's legs now look at

958
00:40:03,770 --> 00:40:01,620
the mountains in the background there

959
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:03,780
look at that is it AG like a river of

960
00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:06,090
ice ice oh you up into the mountains

961
00:40:16,850 --> 00:40:12,150
isn't that incredible yeah it is hello

962
00:40:18,970 --> 00:40:16,860
that was a big one somewhere very eerie

963
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:18,980
sound suppression of bone-crushing

964
00:40:22,850 --> 00:40:21,690
noises thumping noises it's really

965
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:22,860
terrible how people kept throwing their

966
00:40:29,859 --> 00:40:27,410
drinks over the side oh yeah

967
00:40:36,180 --> 00:40:29,869
you can over the layers jump under that

968
00:40:41,350 --> 00:40:38,650
after viewing the wonders of the glacier

969
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:41,360
I went down below decks to the martini

970
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:44,090
lounge where I run the food with rebecca

971
00:40:50,020 --> 00:40:47,570
watson the skeptic or was it we had a

972
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:50,030
martini in the rendezvous lounge I can't

973
00:40:55,210 --> 00:40:52,310
remember which one rebecca watson this

974
00:40:58,660 --> 00:40:55,220
great fun a great skeptic and always has

975
00:40:59,920 --> 00:40:58,670
something to say and I'm still on the

976
00:41:01,840 --> 00:40:59,930
ship believe it or not now we were

977
00:41:04,420 --> 00:41:01,850
talking to the famous Rebecca Rebecca

978
00:41:06,310 --> 00:41:04,430
how are you are we I'm fine how are you

979
00:41:08,620 --> 00:41:06,320
any I'm very well you enjoying the trip

980
00:41:12,130 --> 00:41:08,630
of course I am I'm with you how could I

981
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:12,140
not and that's all for now thank you and

982
00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:13,910
what's been the highlight so far I know

983
00:41:17,740 --> 00:41:16,070
we've only been going for three days the

984
00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:17,750
highlight so far well today we saw a

985
00:41:22,930 --> 00:41:20,150
glacier calving I was gorgeous Hubbard

986
00:41:24,850 --> 00:41:22,940
was a hubbard glacier yeah it was

987
00:41:27,220 --> 00:41:24,860
absolutely beautiful it was immense and

988
00:41:29,470 --> 00:41:27,230
it made these amazing sounds like

989
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:29,480
thunder is really beautiful that was

990
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:31,850
dilated so what's it like being the

991
00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:34,010
token female skip take it from the

992
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:39,070
cruise yeah it's like being Smurfette I

993
00:41:45,970 --> 00:41:43,910
don't know that means it's no it's it's

994
00:41:47,470 --> 00:41:45,980
also better there are other women here

995
00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:47,480
and that's true but you're the official

996
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:52,670
I'm the only official one I mean if you

997
00:41:57,250 --> 00:41:54,170
would I yeah it's a problem because I'm

998
00:42:00,460 --> 00:41:57,260
so used to it heavy what is your advice

999
00:42:03,070 --> 00:42:00,470
for young ladies out there who are

1000
00:42:06,990 --> 00:42:03,080
thinking that me maybe skepticism is for

1001
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:07,000
me um my advice is that it is for you I

1002
00:42:13,150 --> 00:42:11,810
think if I I think the idea is a lot of

1003
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:13,160
women out there have this little

1004
00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:15,110
thoughts there's skeptical thoughts but

1005
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:16,310
it doesn't really occur to them to get

1006
00:42:20,890 --> 00:42:19,370
involved in the skeptical community or

1007
00:42:25,050 --> 00:42:20,900
movement or whatever you want to call it

1008
00:42:27,609 --> 00:42:25,060
and when they come to an event like this

1009
00:42:30,940 --> 00:42:27,619
hopefully they see people like me and

1010
00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:30,950
and one of the many other women who are

1011
00:42:38,020 --> 00:42:35,440
here today they see us as out-and-proud

1012
00:42:40,690 --> 00:42:38,030
skeptics and they realize that it's okay

1013
00:42:42,730 --> 00:42:40,700
and that they can do that too and it's

1014
00:42:44,730 --> 00:42:42,740
kind of difficult cuz the skepticism by

1015
00:42:48,490 --> 00:42:44,740
definition is kind of an in-your-face

1016
00:42:50,530 --> 00:42:48,500
sort of thing it's it's going against

1017
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:50,540
the grain it's telling people that what

1018
00:42:53,740 --> 00:42:52,160
they believe is not true and it's not

1019
00:42:54,819 --> 00:42:53,750
always the popular thing to do and it's

1020
00:42:58,240 --> 00:42:54,829
not something that women are always

1021
00:43:01,480 --> 00:42:58,250
taught is ok to do and so I think that

1022
00:43:03,130 --> 00:43:01,490
were just trying to make headway showing

1023
00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:03,140
them that it is okay to keep that I

1024
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:05,089
guess a lot of people have that don't

1025
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:06,650
realize that it is skeptical also

1026
00:43:10,810 --> 00:43:08,450
involves hanging out and problem cruises

1027
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:10,820
a little bitty place yeah I thought we

1028
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:13,730
were keeping that a secret it's all very

1029
00:43:19,450 --> 00:43:17,599
hard work very hard work no it's a lot

1030
00:43:21,339 --> 00:43:19,460
of fun things like this are so great I

1031
00:43:23,740 --> 00:43:21,349
love meeting all the new people like

1032
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:23,750
this the first time we bet it was and I

1033
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:25,849
was just walking today and or no

1034
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:28,970
yesterday and I really I said that my

1035
00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:30,410
favorite thing about these things are I

1036
00:43:36,190 --> 00:43:32,990
always meet just a few people who I

1037
00:43:38,349 --> 00:43:36,200
really really like and then the worst

1038
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:38,359
part is at the end they always go to the

1039
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:40,010
other side of the world yeah it's always

1040
00:43:46,569 --> 00:43:43,310
related but then you know on the

1041
00:44:03,620 --> 00:43:46,579
brighter side I also meet people like

1042
00:44:10,170 --> 00:44:06,720
listeners can make up their own mind I'm

1043
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:10,180
kidding no i I've been having a lot of

1044
00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:12,400
fun and eating very amusing people like

1045
00:44:17,010 --> 00:44:15,250
this out and it's great to see him of

1046
00:44:19,170 --> 00:44:17,020
course James Randi here on the trip and

1047
00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:19,180
he's been the life and soul he's always

1048
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:22,150
a story noise magic tricks I i adore

1049
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:24,850
Randy and the best thing in the world is

1050
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:27,760
to just be walking through the ship or

1051
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:29,710
if you come to the amazing meeting in

1052
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:31,930
Las Vegas or in Fort Lauderdale to just

1053
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:33,730
be walking around a hotel and you run

1054
00:44:38,580 --> 00:44:36,850
into randy and he's always so accessible

1055
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,590
and you just pull him off into a little

1056
00:44:43,290 --> 00:44:40,720
nook and he will sit down and he will

1057
00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:43,300
tell you the most outrageous and amazing

1058
00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:46,360
stories I mean stories about Richard

1059
00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:49,990
Feynman or alice cooper or screw the

1060
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:52,150
other names he'll just tell you amazing

1061
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:54,730
stories about himself and all the weird

1062
00:44:58,110 --> 00:44:56,530
adventures that he's gotten into that

1063
00:45:00,000 --> 00:44:58,120
happened to us today we were in the

1064
00:45:02,940 --> 00:45:00,010
elevator going down to one of the lower

1065
00:45:04,350 --> 00:45:02,950
decks we saw the secret let down on the

1066
00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:04,360
Norris take a walk he had it and

1067
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:05,910
suddenly they're behind us was right

1068
00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:10,510
exactly he turns up in and really odd

1069
00:45:14,250 --> 00:45:12,760
spot I don't he's you know Phil Plait

1070
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,260
the baddest runner or not the state

1071
00:45:18,660 --> 00:45:16,240
right that's the thing everywhere you

1072
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:18,670
turn is somebody who has something

1073
00:45:22,710 --> 00:45:20,530
interesting to say somebody who is an

1074
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:22,720
expert on something and can look at

1075
00:45:27,780 --> 00:45:24,850
things in a different way in a weird way

1076
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:27,790
and that's I think that's what's amazing

1077
00:45:33,930 --> 00:45:30,490
about the amazing meetings it's such an

1078
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:33,940
awesome collection of people that you

1079
00:45:40,090 --> 00:45:35,890
can't help a love that's cool thanks

1080
00:45:45,530 --> 00:45:42,740
before joining the amazing adventure too

1081
00:45:48,020 --> 00:45:45,540
I spent some time in Colorado I was the

1082
00:45:50,930 --> 00:45:48,030
guest of Phil Plait and the guest of the

1083
00:45:53,180 --> 00:45:50,940
Denver skeptics everyone treated me so

1084
00:45:55,490 --> 00:45:53,190
well I enjoyed giving a talk to the

1085
00:45:57,710 --> 00:45:55,500
Denver skeptics and then they took me up

1086
00:46:01,040 --> 00:45:57,720
Mount Evans where I nearly passed out

1087
00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:01,050
through lack of oxygen in Colorado I

1088
00:46:05,510 --> 00:46:02,640
took the opportunity to buy the latest

1089
00:46:08,570 --> 00:46:05,520
copy of the skeptic magazine and noticed

1090
00:46:12,350 --> 00:46:08,580
an article written by skeptic Harriet

1091
00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:12,360
hall I didn't know she would be on the

1092
00:46:18,740 --> 00:46:17,460
cruise now with charades going on in the

1093
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:18,750
background it's the final day of the

1094
00:46:22,670 --> 00:46:20,910
amazing cruise the amazing adventure to

1095
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:22,680
to Alaska north to Alaska with James

1096
00:46:28,700 --> 00:46:25,740
Randi and I'm sitting here with a skip

1097
00:46:32,570 --> 00:46:28,710
doc Harriet Hall hello Harry hello

1098
00:46:37,370 --> 00:46:32,580
Richie now you have an interesting story

1099
00:46:39,290 --> 00:46:37,380
to tell about someone who has decided to

1100
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:39,300
contribute to the skeptical literature

1101
00:46:46,910 --> 00:46:42,690
and it's even a surprise to you is that

1102
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:46,920
a good description I guess so I've been

1103
00:46:50,990 --> 00:46:49,050
a passive skeptic for literally decades

1104
00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:51,000
I've been reading The Skeptical Inquirer

1105
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:53,310
and reading from acceptable literature

1106
00:46:58,610 --> 00:46:56,640
and then I became a groupie I started

1107
00:47:00,440 --> 00:46:58,620
going to meetings and worshiping all

1108
00:47:02,420 --> 00:47:00,450
those people up on the stage but I never

1109
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:02,430
did anything result I had anything to

1110
00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:04,800
contribute and I went to the skeptics

1111
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:07,380
toolbox workshop one somewhere in Oregon

1112
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:09,810
and I met some of these people these

1113
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:11,370
high and mighty people from up on the

1114
00:47:15,170 --> 00:47:13,650
stage we're young talking to the rest of

1115
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:15,180
us and they were doing beings and they

1116
00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:16,710
were fun and I got to know them and they

1117
00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:18,660
started encouraging me one thing led to

1118
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,020
another and what pretty soon I had

1119
00:47:26,690 --> 00:47:23,520
published some articles i was skeptical

1120
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:26,700
inquirer then I went to the amazing

1121
00:47:32,370 --> 00:47:30,370
volume to michael shermer spoke and I

1122
00:47:34,350 --> 00:47:32,380
I find one of the brakes and I told him

1123
00:47:36,300 --> 00:47:34,360
about a book i read recently called God

1124
00:47:38,210 --> 00:47:36,310
so now not the bible code but another

1125
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:38,220
one even another one that almost makes

1126
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:41,470
the Bible Code sound sane I called the

1127
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:43,090
god code that was completely off the

1128
00:47:47,130 --> 00:47:45,370
wall and I asked Michael if he'd read it

1129
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:47,140
and he said no but it sounded like

1130
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:48,490
something that would be good for this

1131
00:47:53,130 --> 00:47:51,040
magazine I think you should get somebody

1132
00:47:56,070 --> 00:47:53,140
to write a preview for skeptic magazine

1133
00:47:57,900 --> 00:47:56,080
he said what is your right away yeah so

1134
00:47:59,880 --> 00:47:57,910
now all of a sudden I'm not only

1135
00:48:02,940 --> 00:47:59,890
publishing and skeptic but i have my own

1136
00:48:04,890 --> 00:48:02,950
column I'm contributing editor I've got

1137
00:48:11,580 --> 00:48:04,900
three articles coming out in the next

1138
00:48:14,250 --> 00:48:11,590
issue so what is your main focus of

1139
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:14,260
interest their health fraud I was a

1140
00:48:20,820 --> 00:48:17,770
retired family physician and I've been

1141
00:48:22,650 --> 00:48:20,830
working with a quick lunch I'm website

1142
00:48:23,910 --> 00:48:22,660
of the health fraud discussion based on

1143
00:48:25,650 --> 00:48:23,920
quack watch and I've learned a

1144
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:25,660
tremendous amount from interacting with

1145
00:48:29,850 --> 00:48:27,310
the people on their written some

1146
00:48:32,550 --> 00:48:29,860
articles for the clock watch site I

1147
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:32,560
mainly trying to use my medical

1148
00:48:36,900 --> 00:48:35,440
expertise for something useful and then

1149
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:36,910
retired for quite a while now but this

1150
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:38,410
is a way that I can contribute now

1151
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:41,170
mm-hmm and I have you been getting much

1152
00:48:46,740 --> 00:48:44,890
Cara much feedback well yes I wrote an

1153
00:48:49,050 --> 00:48:46,750
article for skeptical inquiry called

1154
00:48:51,150 --> 00:48:49,060
teaching things to sing about my

1155
00:48:53,790 --> 00:48:51,160
experiences trying to introduce some

1156
00:48:56,030 --> 00:48:53,800
skeptical ideas to a group of the

1157
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:56,040
general public but she was I can say

1158
00:49:00,300 --> 00:48:58,450
teaching things to sing only waste your

1159
00:49:02,610 --> 00:49:00,310
time and annoys the pigs yeah sort of

1160
00:49:04,860 --> 00:49:02,620
was the story of that but I got a lot of

1161
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:04,870
feedback and my favorite one was an

1162
00:49:11,220 --> 00:49:07,810
email that started out dear Harriet will

1163
00:49:12,780 --> 00:49:11,230
you marry me he went on to say he was

1164
00:49:16,530 --> 00:49:12,790
actually already happily married but we

1165
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:16,540
could move to Utah all right so you have

1166
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:18,310
at least that lets you know that people

1167
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:19,570
are out there and they're reading your

1168
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:21,490
articles yes it's been very gratifying

1169
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:24,010
I've had requests to use my articles for

1170
00:49:29,490 --> 00:49:26,050
college courses on critical thinking and

1171
00:49:30,599 --> 00:49:29,500
Wow a request to post it on websites and

1172
00:49:32,819 --> 00:49:30,609
to reprint it

1173
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:32,829
so it's better that is got a very

1174
00:49:38,190 --> 00:49:34,960
gratifying and I noticed in the the

1175
00:49:41,249 --> 00:49:38,200
issue of the skeptic will you have an

1176
00:49:43,799 --> 00:49:41,259
article in the issue of the spider-man

1177
00:49:45,870 --> 00:49:43,809
on the cover no let's let's a skeptical

1178
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,880
Inquirer or the skeptic has Dawkins on

1179
00:49:48,930 --> 00:49:47,200
the cover I get them all confused

1180
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:48,940
picture of richard dawkins where your

1181
00:49:53,220 --> 00:49:51,910
article it's a very interesting line

1182
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:53,230
drawing of you or was that the

1183
00:49:58,529 --> 00:49:55,089
photograph turned into a light before i

1184
00:50:00,930 --> 00:49:58,539
sent a photograph to Pat Lindsay the art

1185
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:00,940
lady at skeptic at her request oh she

1186
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:02,710
did the pencil sketch she had not met me

1187
00:50:10,109 --> 00:50:04,960
hell yeah yeah my daughter says it makes

1188
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:10,119
me look me oh who incidentally is on the

1189
00:50:14,579 --> 00:50:12,249
cruiser of this your daughter I thought

1190
00:50:16,499 --> 00:50:14,589
her ass yes I had dinner without the the

1191
00:50:18,450 --> 00:50:16,509
other night she's super charming thank

1192
00:50:20,489 --> 00:50:18,460
you so thank you very much for chatting

1193
00:50:22,589 --> 00:50:20,499
to me enjoy the rest of the cruise I

1194
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:22,599
think there are some whales to be

1195
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:24,640
spotted this afternoon thank you very

1196
00:50:41,220 --> 00:50:38,400
thank you for joining me for this

1197
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:41,230
episode of the skeptic zone thanks to

1198
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:43,330
Jon Ronson and thanks to everybody on

1199
00:50:48,270 --> 00:50:45,910
the amazing adventure to north to Alaska

1200
00:50:51,060 --> 00:50:48,280
with James Randi and something I'll

1201
00:50:53,220 --> 00:50:51,070
never forget next week we have our

1202
00:50:55,710 --> 00:50:53,230
regular episode with dr. ray cheer

1203
00:50:58,440 --> 00:50:55,720
apports the round up the think tank and

1204
00:51:00,390 --> 00:50:58,450
all the features you love thank you to

1205
00:51:04,590 --> 00:51:00,400
everybody who's been leaving comments on

1206
00:51:06,090 --> 00:51:04,600
our website WWDC a petting zoo TV and a

1207
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:06,100
special thank you to everybody who's

1208
00:51:10,860 --> 00:51:08,410
been donating a few dollars our way it

1209
00:51:15,860 --> 00:51:10,870
really does make a difference until next

1210
00:51:22,260 --> 00:51:18,270
you've been listening to the skeptic

1211
00:51:26,070 --> 00:51:22,270
zone visit our website at wwc a petting

1212
00:51:29,290 --> 00:51:26,080
zoo TV for comments contacts and extra

1213
00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:33,750
skits

1214
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:40,859
check

1215
00:51:40,869 --> 00:51:42,920
Oh